Transcript 0:00 [upbeat music] Welcome to the Flying Solo podcast. I'm Jen, founder of Flying Solo and your host. 0:13 Join us as we explore tips, advice, and personal stories to support our youth as they spread their wings and fly solo. Remember, you're not alone. We are here to help you soar. 0:25 It's so lovely to see you again, Jenny, and you're wearing that beautiful jacket again. [laughs] Um, how are you today? I'm very, very good. Yes. Good. Sparkling. Sparkling. Oh, I like that. Sparkling. 0:37 We should use that more often. Um, we're going- Do you know, do you know whenever, um, Rob, the husband, is asked that question, he always responds, "Not too bad, not too bad." And I, I just kind of, like... 0:52 I just want to sort of shake him and say, "Stop." Yeah. Because whatever the ans- whatever the response to that question is, our brain hears it. Yeah. 1:00 So when he's saying, "Not too bad, not too bad," his brain is hearing too bad, too bad twice. Yep. So it's saying, "Okay, so things aren't good for you. 1:11 Now I need to go and find the evidence to prove why they're not good." Yeah. And he switches on his reticular activating system and scans in all of that negative stuff. 1:21 So when I say it's brilliant and sparkling, my brain says, "Ooh, we're gonna have a fabulous day." [laughs] That's exactly how I just reacted. Yes. I went, "Oh, that's good. That's a good word." Yeah. Yeah. 1:32 And my brain- Demonstrated perfectly... my brain tunes in all that positive stuff- Yeah... and reinforces the fact that it is good. Yeah. And now I'm not saying you should lie. 1:41 I mean, if you're not having a good day, you should be able to authentically say, "Today's a difficult day. However, I'm looking forward to having a very joyful and productive day." Yeah. Even so. Even so. 1:53 Because both things can be true. Absolutely. Today we're going to talk about purpose and your why, which I think can feel like very big words and potentially overwhelming to some people and to everyone at points. Um, 2:09 I talk about my why at times being my children and my family, and actually if you stop and think about the enormity of that, that's huge. 2:18 Um, so I think for young people who are perhaps consuming things like social media and this vision of a perfect life that is portrayed sometimes in social media, 2:32 it may make it even more difficult to decide or understand what your purpose or your why might be. So I think it's a really important conversation. 2:41 I think it's a big conversation, and I don't think we'll have time to cover everything in it, but I think we can start to open up that conversation around how a young person might 2:52 start to figure out their why, their purpose, what they do and don't like, what is and isn't important to them. And yeah, I think that's a good place to start. 3:05 So what kind of things do you think a young person can be asking themselves to start to get a sense of what their why or their purpose might be, and what kind of things do you think would be useful for them to be paying attention to? 3:23 I think it's really helpful to start this conversation by introducing the notion of why are we here. Ooh. 3:36 And I know that can be a really scary question for people, you know, because you get into this, this, this existential kind of conversation- Mm... 3:43 about, you know, do we exist and m- multiverses and are we, are we just a micronism in the universe- Yeah... and we're not- And have we been here before? 3:53 [laughs] We're not, we're not an intelligent, um, species at all, 'cause if we were, we wouldn't be doing some of the things we do to each other. Yeah. 3:59 So I think, I think in a way this kinda sense of what's our why and why are we here and what's the, what's the purpose of humanity, what's the purpose of this life, um, is, is a probably a helpful place to start. 4:13 I think, I think the, the trend to pull away from organized religion 4:25 in some respects is unhelpful and potentially feeding a sense of hopelessness in society. So... And I'm not pushing religion, 4:38 um, or selling religion, but when, when there was a mass psychology that believed in something and therefore life... 4:47 You know, there was a journey and you were born and you lived, and then you died and you went somewhere- Mm-hmm... to heaven. Um, 4:54 there was a sense of meaning in my life and there was a, you know, it was a story and it had a beginning and an end and- Yep... 5:00 and there wa- there was, there was structure and there was ritual and, um, and people kind of were on that journey collectively. 5:08 And I think the more people who, um, are disenfranchised from any kind of organized consciousness in that sense, potentially are in danger of feeling very isolated and alone 5:22 and when, particularly when things get difficult, disconnected. So, 5:29 so, so where my life has brought me to in terms of a, a very helpful psychology, and I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying this is what gets me through the really difficult times in my life, is, 5:43 is that I do believe that there is a... I, I, uh, for starters, I believe we know nothing about the bigger picture. Mm. We know, we know so little about the bigger picture. 5:52 I was listening to a podcast there, um, a Stephen Bartlett podcast about, about, uh, atoms and universes and quarks and multiverses and string theory and Big Bang Theory, and I didn't understand any of it. So- 6:07 But what it did tell me, it was like bubble theory, universal- universe bubble theory. That, that, you know, there's- Oh. Exactly. Blows my mind. 6:14 There's trillions, apparently there are trillions of universes- Blows my mind... of which we are but one. Okay. So, so it's easy to think that it, this is all very meaningless. 6:25 However, what I choose to believe is that there is, there is a unifying intelligence in h- humanity, and, and, and I think there's, there, there are, um, glitches of evidence when you think about, um, the Space Race. 6:42 You know, two separate countries are chasing the same objective, and you go back to the 1950, '60s, and they both managed to get a rocket in the sky within weeks of each other. Mm-hmm. 6:54 Now, that was either espionage or it was the fact that the scientists were pulling down the same intelligence- Yep... at pretty much the same time. 7:03 Uh, another concept I was introduced to was the fact that everything that's needed to do whatever is happening is, has always existed. Yep. So all of the, all of the resources existed when it was Neanderthal man. 7:18 The thing that's changed is the, is, is the, the ability- Yep, we've tapped into it... to research and learn- Yep, yep... 7:24 and, you know, we've, we've evolved and, and to access these resources and put them together in a way that make things possible. So, so my choice is that there is a unifying intelligence, and that 7:37 we draw down from this unifying intelligence, and that when we're born, this is the difficult bit to get your head round, but at a soul level, we are choosing the existence that we're having. Yep. 7:52 Now, this gets me through, but in the birthing process, we are, we are born forgotten. We, we are born, and we forget that we're part of that, and we then spend our life 8:07 trying to remember what it was we came to this planet to learn or to do. And that, for me, is what purpose is. W- wh- why am I... why have I come to this life, this existence? What have I come here to learn or do? 8:23 So every time something difficult and challenging happens in my life, I'm very fortunate that I don't define myself by it, and I'm not a victim to it. Yep. I ask the question, I wonder why I chose this. 8:38 What was I supposed to learn from it? What's this going to give me in my, in, in this lifetime to help me achieve my purpose? And in a sense, that's, that's kind of ultimately what's my why. 8:51 Now, when I was a lot younger, believe you me, my why was earn money to get stuff. [laughs] So I, there was one time when I was, uh, late teens, I think I had about three or four jobs at the same time. 9:06 So I was like in full-time job, Friday night shift- Yep... Saturday and Sunday shifts. Yep. And it was all about money, and it was all about, it was all about having all the things that I always wanted. 9:16 I used to watch Dallas and, um, I was, I was so envious of the Dallas lifestyle, and I wanted a Cabriolet and I wanted big padded shoulders and I wanted, I wanted a Dallas lifestyle. 9:27 I never wanted a Coronation Street lifestyle. I just wanted a Dallas one. So my why in my early years was purely driven by... And, and here's another thing about purpose and why. It was all about getting away from 9:41 what I'd grown up with. So it was getting away from poverty. It was getting away from, um, the house that we lived in. It was getting away from having nothing. It was getting away from, uh, you know, cold, scratching. 9:58 It was, it was just getting away from that, uh, those early years- Yep... towards, so the earning money was towards this envisaged life of luxury- Yep... and having, and the perception of what that life would give me. 10:12 Yep. And I didn't know what that life would give me- Yep... 'cause I'd never experienced it. Yep. So, 10:18 so that for me is kind of like the, a thing that says, I think it's okay not to know what your purpose or why is in early years. Yeah. Because why would you? Yep. 10:26 Now, my mum died when I was 21 through suicide, and I think that was the beginnings of the, the awakening almost of why I've come t- why, why, what, what purpose could be in my life. Because 10:45 the interesting thing about when my mum died, whi- which was 45 years ago, I wasn't embarrassed or ashamed to talk about it. And 45 years ago, cancer, you, no, you, you, people didn't say cancer. 10:58 They just said the C word. And they didn't actually say the C word. They used to mouth it like... [laughs] Like Liz Dawson would in a comedy script. She mouthed it. Yeah, she mouthed it. 11:07 We can't see it 'cause I'm not, I'm still not filming my podcast even though everybody's telling me I should. [laughs] But it was like the C word. [laughs] And, um, 11:15 and equally, I mean, my goodness, you didn't talk about mental health. Yeah. And you certainly didn't talk about suicide. But even at that age, at 21, to me, my mum's life had meaning, and her death had meaning. 11:31 And why should I be ashamed of what my mum did? Why should I be embarrassed about what my mum did? Yeah. Mm-hmm. So I talked about it, and that somehow made me 11:42 a person that attracted people who wanted to talk about their challenges and, and they felt safe to talk about anything with me. Yeah. And I think that kind of fed the sense of I wonder why I'm here. 11:56 I wonder if being helpful to people is something I, I find- Yeah... I'm good at and is quite natural. Yeah. So at 40, I trained and qualified as a coach. And, um, 12:12 and then became a professional people-helper, still not fully really understanding that, that, that potentially was my why or purpose. Yeah. 12:22 It was something I was good at, it was something I enjoyed, it's something I could earn a living from. And there's another irony here at 40, um, the people that really needed me to coach them couldn't afford me. 12:34 And I can remember saying then, "I wonder what the solution is, is to, to providing services to people who can't afford it 12:42 so that the, the practitioner, the coach can still earn money, but they can get it for free, and I wonder what the solution to that would be." Now, that was 26 years ago. Yeah. And then fast-forward to the age of 60, so, 12:59 so at 40 I had Megan, um, and within eight years my purpose started to reveal itself because as she became unwell- Yeah... increasingly unwell, my purpose as a mother revealed itself, itself. 13:17 You know, I think she chose us as parents because we never dif- we never... We accepted her for who she was and what she was and the challenges that she had. And then 13:29 20 years on, when she sadly died through sui- suicide and we started Megan's Space, it was almost like the answer revealed itself because Megan's Space 13:41 can provide support to young people who can't afford it, and yet the professionals that provide it are paid for their services- Yep... through the charity Megan's Space. 13:51 So it's a really, really long answer to, like, purpose and why and everything. Yeah. But for me, at all of these touch points of why did my mother kill herself, why did Megan kill herself, 14:01 it's, it's the question of what do I need to learn from this and what can I do with this information? Yeah. And therefore, my purpose has revealed itself slowly through a lifetime. Yeah. 14:12 But now I am 100% living my why and living a life of, of purpose. I don't get paid for anything I do for the charity. So in all those early years when I was chasing the money, it was, it was get- it was giving me stuff. 14:27 Was it giving me fulfillment? No. No. Now I'm privileged to be in a position, I'm retired, I'm privileged to be in a position where, yeah, I can spend all my time doing things that are so fulfilling but actually 14:43 don't bring any cash. It's not about stuff. It's not about stuff. Not about stuff. And I think that's, for me, I think sometimes the, the word purpose or your why, anyone's why, is confused with the job that they do. 14:58 Absolutely. And I think that's, that's the bit that for me I, I think... 15:01 And I th- and I don't even know whether this can be taught or whether you just have to experience it, and that's a big question that I can't, I still can't answer. 15:08 But I think if we can start to bring awareness to separating those two things, that your purpose in life, your purpose on this earth isn't the job you go and do Monday to Friday 9:00 to 5:00. 15:23 Now, we all have to have a roof over our heads and we all need some money in which to live and to do that, but does that define you as a human being and, and the life that you lead? I don't, I don't think so. 15:36 Um, and I think your purpose is something bigger than that, and I think it does take time to come out, and I think it probably changes over time. I don't think your purpose when you're 20 is your purpose when you're 60. 15:48 Um, and there are certain things within that that you can control, and there are certain things that happen outwith your control, and then you need to choose your response to that, which is- Mm-hmm... 15:59 what you've kinda just said, as things have happened in your life. So for somebody who's young just now and is thinking, "Well, what is my purpose? What is my why?" 16:07 You know, and I s- I, I also believe that you need something to help you, to anchor you, to help you get through your day and your life, particularly when things are hard. 16:19 So if somebody in their mid-20s is thi- li- listening to this thinking, "Okay, so you're telling me I need something to anchor my day and to anchor my life, and you're telling me that, you know, purpose is something that I develop over time," what kinda things can that person be doing to 16:34 give them that anchor shorter term while life sort of unravels, I suppose? To, to, to hopefully one day that why becomes really apparent to you and obvious to you through the things that have been difficult. 16:49 What do you use to help you, um, give you that framework? So, so that sense of being, um, you know, a leaf floating around and just- Yeah... 17:03 flying around and landing and, you know, the randomness, the randomness of life. I think what's helpful is w- we're, we're kind of back to the personal responsibility conversation, and, um, a, a model 17:19 that I've developed and I've, I, I share with people which resonates really well is, is, is the idea that life's a game. So nothing... There's nothing random about... Although I think, [laughs] 17:32 I think the nuclear physicists might argue that, but anyway. So if life's a game, the, the game I would like people to consider is a game of Snakes and Ladders. 17:44 And if you went to any toy shop now or went onto Amazon and downloaded or, or ordered a Snakes and Ladders game, there is a, there is a standard Snakes and Ladders board that everybody looks at and recognizes and says, "That's the Snakes and Ladders board." 18:00 Mm-hmm. It's got snakes on it, it's got ladders. We know what they do. You, you've got a square 100. You start at number one, you throw the dice. 18:07 You, you go through, you're doing really well, and then you hit a snake and it takes you back down again. Yep. Or you hit, you hit a, a square and you hit a, a ladder, and it zooms you further up the board. 18:19 It's a wonderful game. It would be fair to say that everybody thinks that if this is the game of life, Snakes and Ladders, that we're all playing on an expanded board. 18:30 They've all got the same board, they all look the same, and the answer is that's not true. [laughs] That's not the case. So in my experience as a coach, many, many years, what I've assessed is that the first board... 18:46 So, so there are four boards. The first board that some people are playing on, it's about 30% of the population. 18:52 So if you think for every, for every 100 people out there, 30 of them have taken home this particular version of the game, and they take it out the box, and they look at it, and all they can see are snakes. 19:08 Now, behind the snakes, there are some very, very faint ladders, but they're really difficult to see. And 19:14 for these people, everything they try to do seems to, you know, I'm doing really well, I'm working really hard, I'm trying really hard, and then I hit a snake, and I go back to square one. 19:26 I hit a snake, and I go back 10 steps. I hit a snake, and I go back two steps. 19:30 And my experience of, of these people is that when they're talking, they're often, they're often referring to other people with regards to why they keep hitting snakes. So you know, "My mum and dad broke up. 19:48 I didn't have a good upbringing. My teachers were rubbish. They never looked after me. I went to a really crappy school. Um, I, I didn't get the job because the interviewer was an asshole." 19:58 You know, it's always somebody else's problem. Yeah. Uh, I, I've, I was late because the bus didn't turn up. Yeah. Flipping, you know, the transport system's rubbish. Yeah. 20:08 It's always out there, and it's something's wrong. It's somebody else's fault. And yeah. Yeah. You know, um, I didn't get the girlfriend because. 20:15 So there was just a constant externalization of why things in their life aren't going in the way that they would want them to. Yeah. So 30% of the population, and that they're defined by the word they. 20:27 So if you listen to somebody talking and it's they were talking about what they did- Yeah... as opposed to what I did- Yeah... they're on that board. Okay. No judgment. That's the board they're on. 20:38 The sad thing is they don't know they're on that board. Okay. The next board, 50% of the population, so the next 50 people, are on a good old-fashioned Snakes and Ladders board. Okay. 20:49 [lips smack] So you would say they're playing the fair game of life. They're born, they go to school, 20:58 they probably go to further education, they get a job, they pay taxes, they retire at the allotted age, which is probably about 78 now. [laughs] No, it's [laughs] 67. They get, they retire. 21:10 Now if they- They play by the rules... if they're really, really good people, they die about six months after they retire because that way they've n- they've never been a burden on the state- [laughs]... at all, 21:22 and that makes them really good people. Yeah. Okay. Now, good people will say, "I was a good person. I was a good mother. I was a good daughter. I was a good son, brother. I was a good husband. I was a good wife." But 21:39 so listen to the language. I'm a good, but I'm a good employee, but I didn't get the promotion. I'm a good wife, but my husband left me. I'm a good whatever- Yeah... but, and the sad thing is, is that life isn't fair, 21:58 end of. Life isn't fair. No. Bad things happen to good people. Yep. And being good isn't actually anymore good enough. You need to be more than good. 22:10 If you wanna really excel in the corporate world, you've gotta be outstanding. Mm. Excellent and outstanding. 22:15 If, if, if you wanna go to the top university, you absolutely have to put the hard work and effort in to get there. So sadly, being average will 22:29 not give you the returns if you aspire to have more than average returns. And again, no judgment because there's nothing wrong with having a good life. No. 22:39 Lots and lots of people are very happy to have a good life, but if you're experiencing life frustration because you think you're doing every... 22:47 you think you're doing enough of everything and you're just not getting the returns- Think about what you see after a but... absolutely, and think about the what else. Now, I'm gonna skip a board because 23:00 the fourth board is 3% of the population. Okay. And it's an old-fashioned, um, it's not, it's kind of, it's a bit hackneyed, but 97% of world wealth is held in the hands of 3% of the population, 23:14 and we know we could probably name the five people, you know, off the top of our heads if we got our heads together. You know? Yep. Bezos, Trump, Buffett. You know, we know who they are. Yep. Gates. Now, 23:26 there's actually a, a game called, um, Chutes and Ladders. It's not even Snakes and Ladders. 23:32 [laughs] It's Chutes and Ladders, and instead of it being, um, snakes, it's like these playground slides, and the picture on the front is, like, a baby Trump. It's very funny. 23:42 [laughs] I, I don't, I don't think it was by design. Um, and I call these people, um, the, the Nike tick people. The just do its. Okay. So these people write the rules. They are well connected. Yeah. 23:57 They can pay for advice. If they want to change the world, they know the people. You know, they know politicians. They know bankers. 24:05 They just go out there and say, "This is what I'm trying to achieve, and let's get together and make it happen," and they just do it, and that's 3% of the population. Which leaves us with mathematically 17%. It does. 24:18 I've been writing it down just to check. [laughs] 17%. So 17 out of every 100 people, and typically they're the kind of people I would work with as a coach. And I... 24:29 And when I do this in schools, 'cause I do do this in schools, I always ask the question, "So what, what do you think that that board looks like?" 24:35 And I get various que- answers, and quite often the answer the kids come up with is, "It's a board full of ladders. You can't see the snakes, and all you can see is ladders." And the actual answer is it's a blank board. 24:47 It's got the 100 squares- Yep... but there are no snakes and ladders on the board. And the reason for that is because this 70% of the population, 24:58 they know they've got strengths, which are the ladders that are gonna take them up quicker. Mm-hmm. They know they've got some limitations and, and things that can trip them up, the snakes, 25:10 but they choose what's going on the board. So I'm gonna choose to invest in my coaching practice, and I'm gonna stretch that ladder, ladder as long as I can. Yep. That goes on the board. Um, 25:26 let's say a snake of mine would be I enjoy gin and tonic every night. That makes my sleep a bit fuzzy. That makes me less effective the next day. That's a snake. 25:36 So I can choose to shrink that snake and say, "Okay, I'm gonna go from a seven-square downward snake, and I'm actually only gonna have gin and tonic on a, a Friday and a Saturday." So now it's a two-square snake. 25:49 I've shrunk it. Yep. So the 17% Club board is about owning who we are, self-awareness, what we're good at, what we're not so good at. Not they, but I. 26:08 Mm-hmm. I, and I'm choosing who I am showing up. So if I've got an interview and I've gotta get a bus, I'm gonna leave the house an hour earlier than I need to in case the bus doesn't show up. Yeah. 26:21 Because the next one, I'll still get there on the next one. So I'm anticipating the conditions and the actions I need to take in order to be successful. Yep. And I'm putting the effort in to make that happen. Now, 26:36 how does this fit in with purpose and why? Because on the snakes and ladders board is a square 100, and the square 100 represents my personal vision. It represents what am I working towards. 26:51 Now, it might be that that square 100 could be topic specific. 26:55 I could say that's my health and wellbeing square 100, or that's my financial square 100, or that's my relationship square 100, or I could choose for it to be my overarching life vision, 'cause I get to choose. Yep. 27:09 It's your board. It's my board. I can make the rules up as I go along. A little bit of 3% in there. [laughs] So 27:16 if I'm looking at, for example, my health and wellbeing, my square 100 would be to have a fit and healthy vibrant body to support me in all the activities I want to do, um, into old age. 27:31 So then I can look at my snakes and ladders in context to that specific- Yep... goal. Yeah. What are you choosing to add? What are you choosing to reduce? Absolutely. So what are my ladders? 27:40 My ladders are I like walking. I'm quite competitive. I like swimming. Um, I've got a dog. I can take the dog out. Yep. You know, these are all the, these are all the ladders that are on the board. 27:52 And equally, what are the snakes? I've got a sweet tooth. I like ice cream. Um, I'm, I'm... I like my gin and tonic. [laughs] Um- You've talked a lot about gin and tonic today. 28:06 [laughs] I've talked a lot about gin and tonic today, haven't I just? And cocktails. Um- Mostly about the reduction of the gin and tonic. Yes. And, um, I think, you know, when we're talking about 28:17 the choices and putting our own snakes and ladders on the board, w- we're not talking about a perfect life. We're not talking about things that are absolute and that are 100% and that are perfect all the time. 28:32 We are talking about that balance, I guess, between it can't all be ladders. That's not, that's not realistic. So where are the snakes? And where you have control over those snakes, what can you do about them? 28:47 Well, I, well, I think the thing, the difference between the first board, which is it's like, you know, it's all their fault- Yeah... 'cause it's the snakes are... 28:54 The, the snakes on my board are because other people have put them there. 28:57 Whereas actually what we were talking about, and I, and it, and it links back to the purpose and the why, is that as, as you go through life and things happen, 29:07 there's an opportunity to step back to say, "What actually happened there? What was my part to play?" Yeah. "And what was playing out? Was that, was that one of my snakes? Or indeed, was it one of my ladders-" Mm "... 29:19 that's tripped me up?" You know? Mm-hmm. Um, but it's that, it's that opportunity to stand back, and then there's the opportunity to ask the question, what can I learn from this, almost like from a higher level? Yeah. 29:33 And how does this play into my purpose? How does this, how does this enlighten what's my why? Somebody might know from a very, very early, early age exactly what their why is. 29:44 Um, it's not saying that you have to wait till you're older, but the pro- process of taking personal responsibility for our own lives as early as possible. Yeah. I first came to you when I wanted to retire. Yep. 29:58 And I can remember you asking me lots of questions about my financial situation, and I didn't have a clue. I, I knew I had pension schemes. Yeah. I knew I had, um, credit cards. I knew I had a mortgage. 30:13 I didn't know what the numbers were. Yeah. Because- I kind of thought they were all gonna add up, but I didn't know for a fact. So I'm not sitting here like some kinda Mrs. Perfect. 30:23 But once I had the purpose, my square 100- You knew what you wanted... became absolutely crystallized. Yeah, yeah. My square 100 was I want to be able to retire at the age of 60. Yep, yep. And that became my why. 30:35 And that is really, really... It's a good example as well, and it's a really, I think, easy, easily relatable example too. You know, um, I, I don't 30:44 give financial advice personally anymore, but obviously I still have that training, and I'm still involved in that world, so I'm still around it. 30:50 And I would say most of the clients that I came across, that I was bringing in as a new client, um, most of the time they didn't, they didn't know. They didn't know. 31:01 They, you know, whether it was through consciously ignoring it or life is busy, and you just, you know, it's something that you're always gonna get to. 31:09 Doesn't matter, that people, people just- We were never taught that we needed to know... yeah, people just don't, don't know. 31:13 And actually, it used to, I don't know if I said this to you, but I used to say to people that I was meeting for the first time, "See that drawer or that box that all your paperwork's in? 31:20 Can you look it out before I come?" Yeah. Because I know- Yep... that people have those boxes and those drawers, and I would go through it and see, right, I need this, this, this, this, and this. Yeah. 31:27 And somebody, um, somebody used to call me her money fairy, and she just handed me her box and said, "Can you just go and fix this?" Yeah. Um, now part of my job was to help educate people in where they were at. 31:39 So here's an irony. So when you first met me, ironically, financially, I was on board one. Yeah. My life was, I, my life, my life and how I lived my life was board three. 31:52 But when it came to finances, I, I was on board one because I didn't have a clear 100. The ladders were my income. Yep. There were two ladders on there, which was my private income and my, my day job. Yep. 32:07 So I knew I had income, but actually the whole flipping board was covered in snakes. It was all V. It was all V, V, V. And it was all V. Yeah. And I'd abdicated responsibility for spending. 32:18 And I, and one of my biggest snakes was my spending habit. I mean, it was alm- almost like sp- not s- not an addiction, but my lack of awareness of what I was spending was a snake. Mm-hmm. 32:29 And I, I'm sure a lot of people will, will relate to that. Yep, particularly now in the world that we live in with it being so easy to spend money and we are constantly being sold to. Oh, don't. 32:41 Honestly, the ti- Rob, Rob takes my phone off me now on a Saturday night when I've had a drink. [laughs] Because other- otherwise, like, on Monday, the door knocks and these things turn up. 32:49 There's a- And I'm like, "Who ordered that?" There's a joke in our house- It's me... that the Amazon man comes, and it's for Daddy. Oh, right. It is literally the Amazon man comes. "Who's at the door?" "The Amazon man." 32:57 "It's for Daddy." That is- Well-... no word of a lie what happens in this house... well, for me, I, I, I mean, I, I'm sounding like I have blackout drinking, and I absolutely don't. But- [laughs]... 33:05 um, I think, I think I was in, um, I think, I think I was on holiday, and I'd had a few, and I was TikToking. And anyway, another time. I don't have, I don't have- Hilarious joke about my Ro- Ro-... I don't have Tik-... 33:17 Ro-... I don't have TikTok. [laughs]... Robots. Well. Maybe I shouldn't have TikTok. 33:20 But I guess the other side to that as well is, and we're kinda going down a, going down a bit of a rabbit hole here, um, the other side to that is though that, you know, if, if somebody is on a, on a s- a, a, a number one board, there is absolutely a way to 33:36 move that to get- Oh... yourself onto a number two or a number three board. 100%. So the, the bit I didn't say is the only thing that separates us from the board we're on, there's only one thing, and it's our mindset. 33:48 It's our belief system. It's what we think. Yep. So it's not about, you know... I know people who were born rich, born on board four, went to the best schools, and live on board one. Yeah. 34:06 And I know people who absolutely, I mean, I think I was born into board one and now comfortably live on board three. Mm-hmm. So it's not about, it's not about acquisition. It's not about stuff. It's not about... 34:21 It's about the mindset of personal responsibility, clarity about destination, and being comfortable. I spent most of my life wanting stuff. 34:37 I thought success, I thought the, the badge of success was w- how high up you were in an organization, how big your house was, how big your car was, um- [clears throat]... 34:49 and, you know, a, a, a gold American Express card. I thought that was success. Yep. Now on my own personal vision board, my success is freedom and choice. Yep. That's success. Yep. 35:04 To b- to wake up every day and to be in a position to be free to choose what I want to do on a daily basis, that's success. Yeah. And, uh, I could be happily living in a one-bedroom apartment, um, 35:18 and not needing loads of space because the stuff is meaningless. Yep. It won't be going with me when I go anyway in the box. No. So at some point in life, you say, "I just don't need all of this-" Yeah... "stuff." 35:30 We don't. And I talk to, I talk to my kids about this all the time. Um, I think I try to demonstrate it as much as I can. 35:37 Um, in fact, I raised money for Megan's Feast on my, on my birthday last year because I didn't want the stuff. I, I consciously do not want the stuff. Mm-hmm. I want, similar to you actually, I want the freedom. 35:51 I want the choice. Um, in fact, the reason that, that Flying Solo has started to pick up again is because I have a little bit of time and a little bit of capacity, and I'm really fortunate to have that. 36:02 And at one point, I thought, "Will I go and get a job?" And actually, I don't want a job. I don't want one thing that I need to report to 9:00 to 5:00, Monday to Friday. 36:13 A, it doesn't fit with my lifestyle because I've got young children, and I need to be in different places. But B- I want that freedom and choice. 36:19 That's more important to me than going and earning tens of thousands of pounds in a big corporate job, which I could get, and I know I could get, and I know I would do well, and I would put the effort in and I would want to do well, but it's less important to me now to have that, and it's more important to me now to have the flexibility and to be around and to pick my kids up from school and to drop them off in the morning, and to go traveling if we want to- Mm-hmm... 36:43 and work from anywhere. And that actually is, for me, that's, that's the life that, that I want to have now, and it's not about the stuff. 36:52 And if I had to sell my house and sell my car and buy something smaller, I would- Yeah... in order to have that. I'm really conscious that the, you know, and many of your listeners are, are possibly younger. Yeah. 37:02 And they may be thinking, you know, it's all good and... Like, I'm a baby boomer, so I'm, I'm hell on earth really, aren't I? I'm sort of like- [laughs] We- we're the reason everybody's got problems now, so. 37:11 Um, and I, I, I really honor and respect the fact that for young people the world is so very different to the world I grew up in. Yeah. And I abhor zero-hour contracts. I think they're, I think they're 37:25 the production of the devil. Um, but I still think... So, so what I would say to a young person, and my own, my oldest son, um, is self-employed and al- almost has, like, a portfolio approach to how he earns money. 37:42 My youngest son, um, is in a full-time job but has started entry level and has worked very hard t- um, to work his way up. So the things I would be saying to young people is there is, there is a truth. What do you like? 37:56 Yeah. What do you enjoy? Yeah. What are you good at? Is, is that a s- is that a skill that the market wants? If it's not, what are you doing in that skill that is marketable? Yeah. 38:12 So, you know, if it's gaming, is it about concentration, problem-solving, repetition, um, presence? 38:21 I would say to anybody listening, invest in your communication skills, your, your human one-to-one communication skills. 38:30 I know the world is now about working from home and remote access and texting and typing, but actually nothing replaces the ability to have a conversation, to be able to show up in an interview and- Yeah... 38:44 pass an interview. Um, so, so... And in, in the same way in a, in a sense, board three, be interested in other people. Learn to ask the questions. How are you? What are you doing? What are you interested in? 39:03 Um, how can I help you? What's important to you? What are you looking for in an employee? Yeah. These are the kind of things w- that will separate young people, um, in, in the job market 39:17 because there is, there is a tendency where there are young people, and these are pe- This is the voice of employers who ha- who are experiencing people showing up for interviews- Yeah... 39:30 is that it feels like people are showing up and it's like, "What you paying me? What you giving me? How much time can I spend, you know, working from home? I don't wanna travel." 39:40 You know, people are showing up and with demands- Yeah... and don't wants. Yeah. And employers are looking for positivity and enthusiasm. Yeah. Um- And there's a, there's a two-way street there I think. 39:52 You know, y- yes, your employer, um, has an obligation to offer the terms they want to offer, the, the working environment, um, help... Well, uh, um, I'm an employer and I, I help set the boundaries. 40:07 I don't expect our staff to work, um, outwith the hours that are, that are set for them or that they've set in agreement with us. Um, but equally... And I think if we, we show that, um, respect to the employee, 40:22 as an employee I would expect to show that back. You know? Mm-hmm. So a little bit of give and take, um, a little bit of flexibility. You know, let's be grownups about things. 40:31 Um, but you can't just appear and expect to be given everything without putting in some hard work. Yeah. Um, and you know, you talked about your, your son starting at the bottom and working his way up. 40:44 Uh, that has to happen because you have to. In fact, we talked about it earlier in this episode. Um, does your purpose come out through experience? It probably does, but you need to have that experience. 40:55 So you need to start where you start and go through the tough bits- Mm-hmm... and the boring bits, and the bits you don't want to do in order to have those experiences. 41:03 And some of that will reveal its pur- reveal your purpose, but some of that will reveal, this is the bits I don't like and this is the bits I do like, and these are the bits I'm good at, and these are the bits I'm not good at. 41:12 And if you don't go and try these things, and you don't go and put yourself out there and do those things, you're not gonna learn that stuff about yourself, and that's really important. Yeah. 41:19 I think the other thing I would say is, um, is... 41:26 I'm a workaholic, so I'm, I'm, I'm sort of struggling, struggling with how to articulate this, but you know, my experience of the workplace is, um, it is what you make it. Yeah. So I've, I've quite often... 41:38 I remember telling this story about Gary when he was a, when he was a baby, my oldest boy, um, that in nursery there would be, uh, like a wooden spoon, and he'd pick the wooden spoon up and all of a sudden it, it was an airplane, or it was a boat, or it was... 41:55 And the child next to him would be looking at him as if to say, "I want that toy. Like, that toy's amazing." [laughs] "Look what it does. It's, it's absolutely fabulous." 42:02 And then the next child would take the to- the, the, the wooden spoon off them and be looking at it, and it's like, it's not doing anything. It's a wooden spoon. 42:09 [laughs] And then Gary would pick up, you know, a, another meaningless in- inanimate object and turn it into... So his imagination would bring- Yeah... the thing to life. 42:19 And I think that's the approach I've taken to the workplace all my life is that, you know- Two, myself and a colleague would have exactly the same job description, and yet I would be off traveling three days a week and having meetings, and my colleague would say, um, 42:37 "Why are you doing all of that?" You know? It's like, "I, I thought we had the same job." And it's like, "We have got the same job." Mm. "But, but you're off in, you're off for three days." 42:44 And it's like, "Well, because I've been, I've been making phone calls, and I've been- Yeah, been approaching it differently... I've, yeah. Yeah. You know, I've been, I've been creating opportunities. Yeah. 42:52 And, and I'm doing things more than the job description requires because it's fun. Yeah. I'm making it fun. Yeah. 42:59 And I think that's probably something, I think something both employees and employers are losing, the fun in the workplace. Yeah. But somebody's gotta be... Somebody's got to bring it back in. Yeah. And why not? 43:10 'Cause again, it's mindset. Mm-hmm. You know? So you can either drag your sorry ass into work and have a crappy day- Yeah... or you can skip in and have a fun day. Yep. 43:20 Yep, and some of that will create your purpose, and some of that will create your why. Board one or board three. [laughs] Yep. Yep, absolutely. We get to choose. We do get to choose. 43:28 So if there's any young people listening, um, and they're thinking, "Ugh, I don't know where to start. 43:32 That's making me feel a bit panicky," what is the one thing they can do to start to think about choosing their board or their purpose and their why or finding the experience? 43:43 What do you think is the one thing they can do, the step they can take, to help them gain some momentum along this path, on this game? I'm gonna sound a bit like a stuck record, aren't I? 43:53 So, um, I al- I will always say that on any journey, the, the thing you have to be most honest about is your starting point. So the two things you need to know is where am I now- Yep... and where do I wanna get to? 44:09 Where am I... Yep. So the simplest thing is allow yourself a dream, and if that means you don't tell anybody because everybody will tell you why that's impossible, don't tell them. 44:24 Um, or only tell the people who are going to be your supporters. But it's your dream. If you want, if, if you want it enough and you're willing to put the work in, which will no doubt be another episode- [laughs]... 44:38 um, you can achieve it 100%. However, you have to be honest about where you're starting. Yeah. So if you're starting on board one and you're surrounded in snakes, that's okay. 44:51 When I first met Jenny, believe you me, I was surrounded in credit card statements. [laughs] Um, but once I knew what my destination was, and my destination was retire at 60, 45:03 all the things that I then did became so meaningful. Stop buying cups of coffee, stop using the credit cards, pay down, you know, clear down the mortgage, and it became fun. 45:14 I mean, it, life became much more fun not spending than it had been when I was overspending. So that's it. Be honest about where you are, and, and whatever your current situation is, there is a solution for it. Yep. 45:31 Yep, absolutely. And believe you me, if you, if you go to, you know, if it's about money and you go to financial advisor, they will not be surprised or shocked. 45:41 If it's about health and you go to the doctor, they will not be surprised and shocked. If it's about emotions and you get a counselor, there's nothing any of these people haven't heard before. And 45:52 life throws us all terrible co- curve balls, but the starting point is to say, "This is where I'm at, and this is what's, these are my snakes." Yep. And if you don't know what your ladders are, 46:06 buddy up with somebody or find somebody that will take time to help you see your ladders. Because that's one of the things that happens, is the deep- the deeper into the pit of snakes we go- Yep, the harder... 46:17 the more we lose sight of the fact that we've got any ladders. Yep. So find your ladders. Re- re- [laughs] reacquaint yourself with your ladders. [laughs] Claim your route. Yeah. Love it. Thank you. Thank you. 46:28 [outro music]
